Sea Breeze

Joined

• started 273 topics
• posted 3,509 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by Sea Breeze

• 
  55

  Trinity Statements in the Dead Sea Scrolls

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  dr. ken johnson has identified several statements in the dead sea scrolls that predict that god would visit the earth as a man... as the messiah.

  .

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljrfvytjhve&ab_channel=kenjohnson%28biblefacts%29 .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Sea Breeze

  Dr. Ken Johnson has identified several statements in the Dead Sea Scrolls that predict that God would visit the earth as a man... as the Messiah.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljRfvyTjHvE&ab_channel=KenJohnson%28BibleFacts%29
  
• 
  141

  My Prediction Regarding New Space Telescope That Will See Back to 100 Million Years From the Big Bang

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  a new space telescope launched a few days age that will supposedly be able to see to within 100 million years of the big bang.

  wow... only 100 million years from the big bang.

  that is pretty early given the 12 billion year age of the universe assigned by scholars who adhere to naturalism.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Sea Breeze

  You are gaslighting Anonymous.
  
  The BB model does not predict fully formed stars and galaxies at only a couple hundred million years after the supposed BB. It does not predict third generation stars at the dawn of the universe.

  Yet, the many reputable university links and science journals links I provided show that to the astonishment of astronomers, this is what they found.
  
  You are being very dishonest.

  So, in your opinion... how did all these fully formed third generation stars and fully formed galaxies that look just like our own get there in only 180 to 200 million years after the BB?
• 
  43

  Who are the 144K Male Jewish Virgins in Revelation 7?

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  no mystery here.

  they are all male jewish virgins, just like scripture says.

  so, why all the muck and fuss?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Sea Breeze

  @Vidqun

  So, I guess these detailed scriptures regarding Israel are symbolic in your view?
  
  

  “Thus says the LORD of hosts: ‘In those days ten men from every language of the nations shall grasp the sleeve of a Jewish man, saying, “Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.” - Zech. 8:23

  “And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.” Zech. 14: 16

  Wow. There are more scriptures like this as well.

  So, when you read the word "Israel" in Scripture" you think - Church. Try reading Romans 9-11 and every time it says “Israel”, replace it with the word “Church”. You will quickly see that it makes no sense at all.

  
  

  Israel really means Israel in both the Old and the New Testaments. While the New Testament often describes Israel and the Church in similar terms – both are the Bride of God, children of God, the chosen people, and so on – never does the New Testament call the Church “Israel”.

  
  

  In the past, people have clung to Galatians 6:16 as an example of how Israel can mean the church, but let’s examine that verse…

  
  

  Galatians 6:16 says: “Peace and mercy be upon all who walk by this rule, upon the Israel of God,” (RSV) or “Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule—to the Israel of God.” (NIV).

  
  

  But if we look at what the text actually says in the original, these translations have missed a key Greek word:

  
  

  καὶ ὅσοι τῷ κανόνι τούτῳ στοιχήσουσιν, εἰρήνη ἐπ᾽ αὐτοὺς καὶ ἔλεος, καὶ ἐπὶ τὸν Ἰσραὴλ τοῦ θεοῦ.

  
  

  Literally translated: And as many as (whoever) to the rule this shall be elementing (observing the fundamentals), peace on them and mercy, and (also) on the Israel of the God.

  
  

  Bible scholar, Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum, writes that people who would claim that Israel means the church “must ignore the primary meaning of kai which separates the two groups in the verse in order to make them both the same group”, and Dr. S. Lewis Johnson, who taught Greek and New Testament Exegesis at Dallas Theological Seminary, believes that, “the least likely view among several alternatives is the view that the ‘Israel of God’ is the church.”

  
  

  The word “Israel” occurs 70 times in the New Testament and all but two of these instances are unequivocally referring to the nation of Israel, and not to the Church. I have covered one of those instances above - Gal. 6: 16
  

  Let's look at the other one now:

  Romans 9:6 - “Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel.”

  The context of this statement is found in verses 1-8. Paul is expressing his love for Israel even in her unbelieving condition. He recounts her great benefits in having the covenants and the law and the fathers and chiefly as being “of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came.”

  Since the question would arise how could God’s promises to Israel be reconciled with her present rebellion, Paul answers this. He says, “Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel.” He is simply saying that a Jew is not saved because he is born into Israel and is of the physical seed of Abraham. Just because someone is born into Israel or converts to Judaism doesn’t mean he automatically inherits the promises of God. The promises of God are not through the law of Moses.

  Paul proves this by pointing out that not all of Abraham’s children inherited his promises (Ro. 9:6-8). This is what Paul had already stated in Romans 2:28-29.

  John the Baptist and Christ taught the same thing. See Luke 3:8-9; John 8:39-44.

  In this passage, Paul uses the term “Israel” in two ways. First, he uses it to refer to all Jews and to all the nation Israel (Ro. 9:4). Then he uses it to refer to the true Israel which is the saved Israel (Ro. 9:6).

  Again, Romans 9:6 does not say that a Jew is not a Jew or that an Israelite is not an Israelite. It is not saying that the true Israel consists of New Testament Christians. Paul says nothing here about the church replacing Israel. He is simply explaining what a true Israelite or Jew is before God. He is saying that salvation is not by being a physical descendant of Abraham.

  The “explosion in knowledge” and great “increase in people traveling to and fro” that Daniel the prophet wrote of (Daniel 12:4) now makes perfect sense with the development of the internet and air travel.

  Likewise, for centuries, it did not dawn on some Bible scholars that the term Israel could possibly truly refer to the actual nation of Israel since they ceased to exist. . So, they imposed their understanding on scripture using the symbolic magic wand. But, a real (not symbolic) miracle happened when the nation reimerged in 1948, in fulfillment of bible prophecy.
  
  

  The last chapter in the Bible consistently and repeatedly teaches that God is not finished with the nation Israel and that the church has not replaced Israel.

  Briefly, Replacement Theology takes a few verses out of context and uses them to overthrow the teaching of the entire Bible. This, of course, is the standard operation procedure of false teaching and one we are all too familiar with since we were previously subjected to the symbolic magic wand weilded by the Watchtower.

  
  
• 
  141

  My Prediction Regarding New Space Telescope That Will See Back to 100 Million Years From the Big Bang

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  a new space telescope launched a few days age that will supposedly be able to see to within 100 million years of the big bang.

  wow... only 100 million years from the big bang.

  that is pretty early given the 12 billion year age of the universe assigned by scholars who adhere to naturalism.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Sea Breeze

  Anony Mous,

  I realize how personally difficult this must be for you. But, secular predictions for the JWST shows just how devastating recent data is to secualr cosmology:

  The standard secularist model predicts:

  1. Fewer galaxies at great distances. None beyond redshift 14 (which supposedly corresponds to 300 million years after the Big Bang)

  2. Farthest/Earliest galaxies would be low mass, clumpy and irregular

  3. Farthest/Earliest galaxies would have only Population III (first generation stars) having no heavy metals/elements, and only containing hydrogen, helium and possibly a tiny amount of Lithium

  All three predictions by secularists have failed.

  1. Galaxies have been observed as high as redshift 20 (supposedly 180 million years from the BB

  2. Earliest galaxies are as large as nearby galaxies. They display fully formed disc symetry, spirals, etc.

  3. Astronomers have discovered metal-rich galaxies in the early universe although the BB model claims this is impossible. Or, as they claim it takes three generations of stars to get heavy metals (slow star formation, burn-out after hundreds of millions/billions of years (supernova), then repeat, then repeat again)

  The standard cosomological model is in crisis right now.

  The Creation model in Genesis is riding high.
• 
  43

  Who are the 144K Male Jewish Virgins in Revelation 7?

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  no mystery here.

  they are all male jewish virgins, just like scripture says.

  so, why all the muck and fuss?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Sea Breeze

  @Vidqun:

  Given the disagreements over the millennium in church history, it is wise to hold our millennial views with humility. I personally don't want to divide believers. But, the topic....especially given our WT background and training is important to unraveling the WT mess we all found ourselves in at one time. So, I proceeed with these views in mind.

  Historical Note: Prior to Augustine, amillennialism was associated with the allegorizing and spiritualizing school of theology in Alexandria, Egypt, which not only opposed premillennialism but subverted a literal exegesis of Scripture. In Antioch, where believers were first called Christians, there was a Christian school that promoted a literal reading of scripture and premillenialism (literal 1000 yr. reign). Both schools produced Christian leaders and copies of scripture. Looking at what they produced in terms of both leaders and manuscripts is very eye-opening.
  
  

  As for the grafting in, yes, individual Israelites will be grafted in after the full number of the nations had come in.

  But, that is not what the text says does it? It says "all Israel will be saved" in Romans 11

  BTW: You never answered my questionns here:

  When has this ever happened:

  “Thus says the LORD of hosts: ‘In those days ten men from every language of the nations shall grasp the sleeve of a Jewish man, saying, “Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.” - Zech. 8:23

  Or, when has this ever happened?

  “And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.” Zech. 14: 16

  Or this?
  
  The nations will know that I, the LORD, sanctify Israel, when My sanctuary is in their midst forevermore (Ezek 37.28)

  Are all these scriptures above symbolic in your view?
  
  
• 
  141

  My Prediction Regarding New Space Telescope That Will See Back to 100 Million Years From the Big Bang

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  a new space telescope launched a few days age that will supposedly be able to see to within 100 million years of the big bang.

  wow... only 100 million years from the big bang.

  that is pretty early given the 12 billion year age of the universe assigned by scholars who adhere to naturalism.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Sea Breeze

  It's a great time to be a Creationist!
  
  Look at this quote from this recent article:

  "The James Webb Space Telescope (JWST) appears to be finding multiple galaxies that grew too massive too soon after the Big Bang, if the standard model of cosmology is to be believed."

  ROTFL

  James Webb Space Telescope images challenge theories of how universe evolved

  Date:

  April 13, 2023

  Source:

  University of Texas at Austin

  Summary:

  Astronomers find that six of the earliest and most massive galaxy candidates observed by the James Webb Space Telescope so far appear to have converted nearly 100% of their available gas into stars, a finding at odds with the reigning model of cosmology.

  But it is not at odds with the eyewitness testimony presented in Genesis!

  And this from Scientific American:

  Astronomers Grapple with JWST’s Discovery of Early Galaxies

  
  

  QUOTE: "candidate galaxies in the early universe are popping up in numbers that defy predictions, with dozens found so far. Explaining this excess may require substantial revisions to prevailing cosmological models, changes that could involve the first galaxies forming sooner... than previously thought."
  
  All exactly as I predicted on page one of this thread.

  It's almost like all these "first" galaxies appeared at virtually the same time as all the rest of them....including our own, fully formed. WOW. Who woulda thunk?
• 
  43

  Who are the 144K Male Jewish Virgins in Revelation 7?

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  no mystery here.

  they are all male jewish virgins, just like scripture says.

  so, why all the muck and fuss?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Sea Breeze

  @ Duran
  
  

  I believe there are sound reasons that holy ones are God’s holy people.... aka "saints"

  First, when Paul uses the Greek word for holy ones (hagios) to refer to beings, he always refers to holy people. Of Paul’s 76 uses of this word, 40 uses refer to people (including 1 Thessalonians 3:13), typically translated saints.2

  Second, when writing to the Thessalonians and referring to angels who accompany Christ for judgment, Paul unambiguously refers to them as angels (Greek, angelos) in 2 Thessalonians 1:7. He even distinguishes holy ones from angels by referring to holy ones as human believers in this same passage (2 Thessalonians 1:10, “all who have believed”; cf. 1:7–10).

  Third, the identity of holy ones as people is more fitting than angels in the context of 1 Thessalonians 3:11–13. Paul prays for his readers to grow spiritually so that they will be perfected in holiness with all of the holy ones at their judgment, and this prayer prepares his readers for admonitions on holiness in the next two chapters (cf. 1 Thessalonians 4:3, 4, 7, 8; 5:23, 26). The idea is something like, “I pray that you grow so that God will perfect you in holiness with all of the holy ones in the future, a holiness that you should be living out right now.”

  Fourth, if one holds that the rapture of the saints takes place before the final descent of Jesus (with the day of the Lord in between; cf. 1 Thessalonians 1:9–10; 5:2–4, 9), then this verse fittingly speaks of the glorification and positive judgment of God’s holy people before the Father and Son (cf. Rom 14:10; 2 Cor 5:10), a judgment that takes place in heaven after the rapture. The term coming (Greek, parousia) refers to a complex event that includes the rapture of the saints, the day of the Lord, and the final descent of Jesus, in that order (cf. 1 Thessalonians 4:14–17; 5:2–4; 2 Thessalonians 2:8).

  This article presents a fair treatment of both sides by David Huffstutler.
• 
  43

  Who are the 144K Male Jewish Virgins in Revelation 7?

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  no mystery here.

  they are all male jewish virgins, just like scripture says.

  so, why all the muck and fuss?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Sea Breeze

  • I'm with Duran in this instance. All believers on earth at the time will have to go through the GT:

    There is certainly no shortage of Christians who believe this. But it is not the dominant Evangelical view, nor of prophecy scholars.

    1) Fleshly Israel has been replaced by the Israel of God (Gal. 6:15, 16).

    And scripture says that if they abandon their unbelief. God can graft them in again. Remember? Also, Romans 11: 1 "I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means! For I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, a member of the tribe of Benjamin."
    
    Clearly there is a path in scripture that supports the many other references about a literal Israel in the Millenium.

    2) God’s people are destined to escape His wrath, but not the persecution heaped upon them by the beasts and their followers.

    That is not exactly what scripture says. It says we are not appointed to wrath (period). Jesus is not a wife-beater.

    3) Those caught up in the air will have no advantage over those involved in the first resurrection. Although the time frame for their ascent will differ,

    The first resurrection is virtually simultanous with the rapture:

    For we say this to you by the Lord’s [own] word, that we who are still alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will in no way precede [into His presence] those [believers] who have fallen asleep [in death]. 16For the Lord Himself will come down from heaven with a shout of command, with the voice of the [b]archangel and with the [blast of the] trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive and remain [on the earth] will simultaneously be caught up (raptured) together with them [the resurrected ones] in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord! - 1 Thess. 1: 15 (Amplified Bible)
    

    This is the same event as most bible scholars agree.

    First group will be part of the first resurrection, after the seventh trumpet blast (Rev. 11:15, 18). The two witnesses, part of the first group, will be publically resurrected after the pouring out of the fifth plague (Rev. 9:11; 11:3, 11, 12; 16:10, 11). Second group will be taken up after the Tribulation (Matt. 24:29-31). In the same way they will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air (1 Thes. 4:15-17 CSBO).
    The natural sequence of Matt. 24 also places the rapture after the tribulation (Matt. 24:30, 40, 41).

    Response

    Jesus makes two very important statements that help us understand He is referring to the Second Coming of Christ in Matthew 24: 25-31 and not the Rapture.

    First, He says that the world will mourn when they see Him in the clouds. This event is described in Zechariah 12:12. Christians will not be mourning at the rapture, but people will be mourning when they see Christ coming at the battle of Armageddon. Second, Christ says that the Son of Man will come on the clouds with power and great glory. Zechariah 14:1-6 describes His coming at the battle of Armageddon and He does come in great power, splitting the Mount of Olives and defeating the nations of the world.

    Verse 31 does not describe judgment, but the gathering of Christians in preparation for Christ’s millennial kingdom. This verse summarizes the sheep and goat judgment which He later describes in greater detail in Matthew 25:31-46. The sheep and goat judgment determines who will be allowed to enter Christ’s millennial kingdom (Revelation 20:4-6). For more information about the sheep and goat judgment visit, “When and where does the Goat and Sheep judgment occur?”

    Conclusion:

    Therefore, Matthew 24:15-29 describes the events that will occur from the middle of the tribulation to the end of the tribulation (see v. 15 and 29). This means that Christ’ second coming occurs next, which is verses 30 and 31.

    Matthew 24:30-31 does not describe the rapture. There are three reasons verses 29-31 do not describe the rapture.

    First, in verse 30 Jesus says that the nations will mourn His coming. But at the rapture Christians will be caught up and meet Christ in the clouds (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17). 1 Corinthians 15:51-54 teaches us that at the rapture believers will obtain imperishable bodies in a twinkling of an eye. That is, the rapture will in a twinkly of an eye. So Christ will not be seen by the non-Christian world. They will not see Him. Surely, believers will not mourn when they see Him.

    Second, at the second coming of Christ, He brings the saints of the ages with Him (Zechariah 14:5; Revelation 19:11-16). After the second coming, Matthew 25:31-46 teaches us that the Goat and Sheep Judgment or the Judgment of the Nations will occur next. At this time Christ gathers all of the mortal saints and unbelievers from around the world together for the Goat and Sheep Judgment. Then He sends the saints into the millennial kingdom (Matthew 25:34-40), and the unbelievers are sent to eternal punishment (Matthew 25:41-46). Matthew 25:30-31 refers to Christ’s second coming and the Goat and Sheep Judgment. It is not about the rapture.

    The third reason Matthew 24:30-31 is not the rapture is that the “sign of the Son of Man” refers to the second coming of Christ (Daniel 7:13; Revelation 1:7). Also, at the second coming, He descends from heaven with a sword and heavenly armies ready to fight at the battle of Armageddon (Revelation 19:11-21). Additionally, verse 31 refers to the Sheep and Goat Judgment or the Judgment of the Nations.

    So, Matthew 24:30-31 describes the second coming of Christ and not the rapture. The study “Does two men in the field, one taken and one left refer to the rapture?” describes another passage that people sometimes mistakenly believe refers to the rapture.

    Will address your other points later. Thanks for all your fine points. I haven't had this much exercise since I got cornered at lunch with a Five Point Calvinist. We ended up talking till dinner and had to order again.
• 
  43

  Who are the 144K Male Jewish Virgins in Revelation 7?

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  no mystery here.

  they are all male jewish virgins, just like scripture says.

  so, why all the muck and fuss?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Sea Breeze

  @ Duran,

  If that is what you think...

  Of course the 2nd Coming is after the GT....that's why the GT ends. But before that, this happens:

  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. - 1 Thess. 4: 17
  
  Do you not believe this?

  A literal reading of this scripture certainly agrees with the scripture that says when Jesus returns he will have his saints with him. How could he have them with him if they were not previously caught up to Heaven to meet him there?

  He returns "with all His saints" (1 Th. 3:13)
  
  What other way could this possibly be understood?
• 
  43

  Who are the 144K Male Jewish Virgins in Revelation 7?

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  no mystery here.

  they are all male jewish virgins, just like scripture says.

  so, why all the muck and fuss?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Sea Breeze

  The sheep and the goats judgement is also called the judgment of unbelieving nations. It happens immediately after Jesus is enthroned in Jerusalem.

  This is strictly a military mop-up operation. In other words, it is for people who happen to find themselves alive after the GT. Both groups are confused by their judgment. Both groups (the sheep who are allowed to enter and the goats who are dismissed) appear to be confused as to why they either had a good fortune or a bad fortune.

  " When did we see you naked and clothed you, hungry and fed you" etc.... both groups ask these kinds of questions, because they don't really know why.

  The Lord answers: "to the extent that you did it to one of the least of my brothers (the Jews) you did it to me".

  Israel will be the target of the Anti-Christ during the GT and Jews will be killed in such a way that it will make the holocost seem small by comparison.

  Those who happen to survive the destruction of the GT and find themselves alive at this time, who didn't go along with the genocidal ambitions of the Anit-Christ, will be allowed to enter.

  This is NOT the hope of Church-Age Christians like the WT tries to sell. It is just a military mop-up operation to remove the final dissidents who opposed the new King of the World - the Jew, Jesus.

  The Christian hope for those alive just prior to the GT is the Rapture - the snatching away.

  Paul instructs believers to wait “for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ” (Titus 2:13). As his instructions pertain to “the present age” (v12), I believe this “blessed hope” includes the Rapture of the Church.

  Here is the timeline: